Unertl / Litschert Scopes - Crosshairs? (2024)

I believe I recall from my younger days that the crosshairs in old scopes were actually made from spider's silk that they weave their webs from. It has probably been replaced by some kind of modern material, and I have no idea what that is, but I think that .008 might be very much too large...

From a quick google seach I got this info:

Reticle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

J. W. f*cker Scope Adjustment & Minor Repairs

...and this link lists a couple of sources for recticle wire:

Scope crosshair wire - CMP Forums

Don't even try to mess with it yourself it takes a basket full of special tools and some simple but impossible to find test equipment. Send it to the techs at ironsite they will probably put in custom wires and reseal it for you for probably a hundred or so bux.
Ironsight Inc.

Note: Both of those old scopes can be sold on ebay in a heartbeat. Probably $300 for the old litschert and $600 for the Unertal if they are in serviceable order. If i was in the USA I would offer him $200 for the pair, as is, if they are reasonably clear and the lens's are unscratched and send them off and get them fixed and sell them and double my money.

Gazz, the unertl will be simple to replace the wires in. I think .008" will be way to big. I replaced the ones in a 12 power with some .002" "red head" hair, its suppose to be preferred over others? I would call it a medium reticule. It is still there after about 5 years, but its on a rem. 37 so it doesn't see much recoil.

Wayne

ken moss said:

speed The Old scopes like the Unertl,Litschert, Malcom,Lyman,are not sealed or gas filled. As for your offer of 200 for the pair that offer STINKS. as for cross hair wire I think its .001 for fine cross hair .003 for heavy cross hairs there was a guy selling the wire on ebay. Ken

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Well Ken I’m sure that if you were not so busy you would hunt down some wire and install it for free for the gentleman. I have had several old Unertals pushed from ten to twenty power, filled with nitrogen and the threads sealed with grease. I’ve watched it done it’s really not all that complicated if you have the tools and you know what your doing. But as for myself, I have always made it my policy never to destroy something that I know absolutely nothing about. Nor do I ever attempt to tell others to do the same. People bring in guns for me to fix all the time. AFTER THEY HAVE FIXED THEM. I must admit its good money for me when some one turns a simple job into a nightmare, as I charge by the hour like everyone else. As for the offer. Put them on Ebay for $900 as I suggested. They will end up selling for $800.00 for the pair. They cost $200.00. The repairs will probably be about $300.00 for repairs shipping and phone calls for the pair. Now we have this little thing we call mathematics which you may not be familiar with. $200 + $300 = $500 investment. $800 - $500 leaves $300 in your pocket which is fair considering all the running around you will have to do to pick them up, get them fixed and sell them. I also bet it will be a few months before you see your $500 back in your pocket so I stand behind what I originally said. It would be a fair deal for everyone considered. Sorry, but that’s life bud!

The tungsten wire from 218 Bee on the CMP forum link is what you want. As far as I know, it is still available, he is on a couple of sites. I have purchased stainless wire from Small Parts, but it was 0.002" and that is still a tad on the large side. by the time you have met the minimum purchase price, 218 Bee's price is not that bad.

It is not all that difficult to replace, the instructions for the f*cker give a general idea of how it is done. There is some variation between manufacturers, but most are built along the same lines. Take your time and don't force anything.

Parson's Scope Service is about the best for repair of these scopes. They are valuable and well worth fixing. Make sure they include the mounts, these will cost $200-$300 by themselves.

Going by memory here (risky!), but I believe there is a fella on the ASSRA forum selling two sizes of tungsten wire, for around $10 a card (a couple feet of wire). IIRC its on the order of half thou for the fine stuff.

There are a couple sites around the web that show the process of installing the wires. Or you can send it out, and option that is a bit more available to y'all in the US of A.

I'd suggest that the ASSRA forum would be the first place to ask. Look at the 'Building a scope' thread while you are there too. Ask on the BPCR forums as well. Lots of guys using old style scope like the Malcolms, etc., there, and you may get some different leads.

Cheers
Trev

trevj said:

Going by memory here (risky!), but I believe there is a fella on the ASSRA forum selling two sizes of tungsten wire, for around $10 a card (a couple feet of wire). IIRC its on the order of half thou for the fine stuff.

There are a couple sites around the web that show the process of installing the wires. Or you can send it out, and option that is a bit more available to y'all in the US of A.

I'd suggest that the ASSRA forum would be the first place to ask. Look at the 'Building a scope' thread while you are there too. Ask on the BPCR forums as well. Lots of guys using old style scope like the Malcolms, etc., there, and you may get some different leads.

Cheers
Trev

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That would be the same 218Bee mentioned on the CMP link and cited above. he is/was selling in ten foot lengths.

Parsons was charging $70.00 to replace cross hairs a year ago, I don't know if that price is still valid.

PARSONS SCOPE SERVICE

Spider web works...

Back about 1989 I lucked into an original Winchester A5 rifle scope for cheap, as usual the cross hairs were gone.

I had been told by a very experienced gunsmith that clean spider web could be gently pulled across the reticule frame and tacked with CA glue and sure enough after a search around the property for a suitable web I had my material, and half an hour later the scope was serviceable.

Spider web is not prone to sagging in humidity either, which can be a problem with other fibers.

Mad Gepetto

how about .0005 edm wire if they make it in that size.

and the offer of $200 for the pair that was not an offer that was a down right cheep insalt

1yesca said:

how about .0005 edm wire if they make it in that size.

and the offer of $200 for the pair that was not an offer that was a down right cheep insalt

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LOL. Well 1yesca, I didn’t offer him anything. I told Gazz to make the offer. If you had bothered to read the thread you would know that. It may interest you to know that both of these scopes are free mounted which means they have external adjustments and are basically held together with bailing wire and duct tape. Quite literally they are first generation technology and their optics have the clarity and light gathering capabilities of a drinking straw. Outside of being curios and something to mount on a light caliber period rifle for look and nostalgia they really have no real use. They would never be used for anything else. Both of these scopes are merely collectables like Model A fords and old tube type radios and they are worth EXACTLY what you can con some fool into paying for them. On top of that if something goes wrong, which is already the case they are very expensive to repair. I believe (precision tools) mentioned $200 to $300 just for the adjustable mounts. He’s right on the money with that. The only way you can get the rings for them is to cannibalize another scope or have some one sit down and make a set for $60 an hour. It would take me a couple days to make a set and I know because I have made them. You do the math. So before you jump on some one, THINK! By the way …. In Canada we spell “INSALT” as insult although that could be one of those silly French things like color and colour. It never ceases to amaze me how the arm chair professionals can sit back and ridicule an honest assessment but if you ever tell them to show the money they seam to get very quiet. It’s the old saying “Money talks and BS walks”

It sounds like these things are such a piece of crap,,,,,,,,,,,, I'd go $20.00 !!!!!!!!!!!!

Wayne

speerchucker30x3 said:

LOL. Well 1yesca, I didn’t offer him anything. I told Gazz to make the offer. If you had bothered to read the thread you would know that. It may interest you to know that both of these scopes are free mounted which means they have external adjustments and are basically held together with bailing wire and duct tape. Quite literally they are first generation technology and their optics have the clarity and light gathering capabilities of a drinking straw. Outside of being curios and something to mount on a light caliber period rifle for look and nostalgia they really have no real use. They would never be used for anything else. Both of these scopes are merely collectables like Model A fords and old tube type radios and they are worth EXACTLY what you can con some fool into paying for them. On top of that if something goes wrong, which is already the case they are very expensive to repair. I believe (precision tools) mentioned $200 to $300 just for the adjustable mounts. He’s right on the money with that. The only way you can get the rings for them is to cannibalize another scope or have some one sit down and make a set for $60 an hour. It would take me a couple days to make a set and I know because I have made them. You do the math. So before you jump on some one, THINK! By the way …. In Canada we spell “INSALT” as insult although that could be one of those silly French things like color and colour. It never ceases to amaze me how the arm chair professionals can sit back and ridicule an honest assessment but if you ever tell them to show the money they seam to get very quiet. It’s the old saying “Money talks and BS walks”

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i have always got a kick out of you spelling Nazis if my spelling is all you have to cry about other then my Accusing you of making a cheep $200 offer [ok so you were telling the other guy to offer $200 still a cheep offer ]so if thats all you have then it sounds like you don't have a lot going on in your life being i Attend and sell at over 18 guns shows a year here in az. and. ca. its more then likey i have passed up more real target scopes then you have ever held in your hands so do i think i am better then you more then likey not but i shure as hell know when i hear someone talking out of there a** as as far as cheep a** folks go you take the cake so go off and cry to the Moderator about how you think you have been abused by some poor old slob that can't spell but just Remember this who triped on there foreskin frist so take your bs and keep on walking as i have no time for cheeppys

1yesca said:

i have always got a kick out of you spelling Nazis if my spelling is all you have to cry about other then my Accusing you of making a cheep $200 offer [ok so you were telling the other guy to offer $200 still a cheep offer ]so if thats all you have then it sounds like you don't have a lot going on in your life being i Attend and sell at over 18 guns shows a year here in az. and. ca. its more then likey i have passed up more real target scopes then you have ever held in your hands so do i think i am better then you more then likey not but i shure as hell know when i hear someone talking out of there a** as as far as cheep a** folks go you take the cake so go off and cry to the Moderator about how you think you have been abused by some poor old slob that can't spell but just Remember this who triped on there foreskin frist so take your bs and keep on walking as i have no time for cheeppys

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Well BUDDY ! I've been working as a gunsmith for thirty years and I have 20 to 40 guns pass through my shop every week and I don't even want to know what I buy and sell in a year. So if your not going to get off your ass and make him a REAL offer then stop wasting oxygen. If I had a nickle for every gun-show-groupy / wanna-be-gun-dealer that told me my prices were out to lunch I'd be a millionaire. And as far as whining to a moderator I'm 99 of the most opinionated butt-holes on the face of the earth and I've been BANNED from more forums FOR LIFE, than you have ever probably posted in. So don't start accusing me of that, thank you very much ! Just goes to show that you can't fix stupid !

This made my day!

Now I don't feel so alone having been banned for life from a few sites myself!

I'm honored to be in such good company!

speerchucker30x3 said:

Well BUDDY ! I've been working as a gunsmith for thirty years and I have 20 to 40 guns pass through my shop every week and I don't even want to know what I buy and sell in a year. So if your not going to get off your ass and make him a REAL offer then stop wasting oxygen. If I had a nickle for every gun-show-groupy / wanna-be-gun-dealer that told me my prices were out to lunch I'd be a millionaire. And as far as whining to a moderator I'm 99 of the most opinionated butt-holes on the face of the earth and I've been BANNED from more forums FOR LIFE, than you have ever probably posted in. So don't start accusing me of that, thank you very much ! Just goes to show that you can't fix stupid !

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